|
Post by AnthroOphidian on Apr 5, 2014 14:17:07 GMT -6
Every time this happens on tumblr, this is my reaction: I fully agree with this part. Still, as said before, I firmly believe that this person is only part of the problem. Her side is NOT the only side trying to spread misinformation, and at least her own misinformation is often based on logical reasoning, even if they are just assumptions. Meanwhile, earlier today I stumbled across the Pixar wiki, which, at least in this context, is pretty biased itself, going as far as not only to state that Randall was the mastermind behind the Scream Extractor plot (which is really ambiguous, at best), but also include a section meant to imply that the Boom! Comics are canon (despite even the artist of the comics saying they're not) simply because they portray him as a villain out for revenge. Sorry for the slight tangent: while I do agree that the fighting is just too much, I personally find it easier to sympathize with the person this thread is about than many of her opponents.
|
|
|
Post by conteremo on Apr 5, 2014 14:28:22 GMT -6
Yeah, I've watched MI since I was a kid and I'm still unsure of the whole truth behind the plot. it's set up so that Waternoose being in on it is a surprise, and even Roz said she didn't know it went up to him...so that was the twist, but it's left ambiguous as to who came up with the plan in the first place, whether Randall gave Waternoose the idea or if Waternoose recruited him for it, and I always questioned if Randall planned on turning on him no matter which it was.
Randall expected to get a higher position and looked forward to Sulley working under him, but what position was it? Did he plan on taking Waternoose's position or did Waternoose offer him a promotion? How would he even take Waternoose's position? By taking credit for the extractor? By outing Waternoose's plot? That doesn't make sense. By killing or exiling him? How would he resist being caught and going to jail for that? And if he did kill or exile him, how would he know he'd even get his position? I don't feel like the movie is really clear. Maybe I should watch it again.
|
|
|
Post by AnthroOphidian on Apr 5, 2014 14:32:05 GMT -6
Good way to bring this back on topic despite my tangent.
Yes, a lot of the canon stuff about Randall especially IS pretty ambiguous, even after Monsters University. It would be nice if people on both sides would stop confusing their beliefs and opinions with what's actually shown in the movies, and, while I acknowledge I have this problem sometimes, the person this thread is about and I are FAR from the only ones, and I know THAT much for a fact. The only major difference between me and the true extremists (on both sides) is that I acknowledge that I can get carried away, whereas the others don't know how to shut up even if they were just proven wrong.
|
|
|
Post by savefearow on Apr 5, 2014 17:24:27 GMT -6
Sometimes I do talk too much, and I'm not afraid to say when I'm wrong. So I know part of this is my fault but it's just one of those seemingly minor details) that gets under my skin.
My husbands advised me to 'be like Elsa, let it go' so I'll try. Maybe I should delete some of my posts or change the tags? I don't want to be rude or annoying but I'm actually passionate about this so it's hard. Sorry everyone.
|
|
|
Post by AnthroOphidian on Apr 5, 2014 17:27:18 GMT -6
I'm not sure what you're apologizing for, savefearow, as I haven't seen anything offensive you wrote here. But yeah, I share your pain.
|
|
|
Post by conteremo on Apr 5, 2014 18:26:10 GMT -6
Another question I have is something that Waternoose says around the end of the movie: He's with the CDA, waiting for one of the doors to come down and he's saying something along the lines of, "These will be the people responsible for this mess." Since Waternoose had just sent Randall away to kill Mike and Sulley, he must have thought that Randall would be coming down along with them, so I think that Waternoose was trying to frame all three of them: Mike, Sulley, and Randall. So he could stay free. Of course, Randall had already been banished by then, but he had no way of knowing that. Plus, for all Waternoose knew, Randall may have already killed Mike and Sulley like he told him to and only Randall would be coming down. So the question is: Did he intend to frame just Mike and Sulley, or Randall too? Or just any of them who was left?
|
|
|
Post by derringdont on Apr 5, 2014 22:02:54 GMT -6
Another question I have is something that Waternoose says around the end of the movie: He's with the CDA, waiting for one of the doors to come down and he's saying something along the lines of, "These will be the people responsible for this mess." Since Waternoose had just sent Randall away to kill Mike and Sulley, he must have thought that Randall would be coming down along with them, so I think that Waternoose was trying to frame all three of them: Mike, Sulley, and Randall. So he could stay free. Of course, Randall had already been banished by then, but he had no way of knowing that. Plus, for all Waternoose knew, Randall may have already killed Mike and Sulley like he told him to and only Randall would be coming down. So the question is: Did he intend to frame just Mike and Sulley, or Randall too? Or just any of them who was left? I've wondered about that. As for the thing previously about whether or not Randall intended to betray Waternoose, yeah, that is really open to interpretation. I personally don't think he did, both for all the reasons you listed and because to me he just doesn't seem like the sort of person who is good at the sort of thinking you need in order to be a businessman. Anyway, what bothers me the most about PBL is her complete disdain for young people, particularly those who are prone to being bullied, i.e., those belonging to marginalized groups.
|
|
|
Post by polkadots on Apr 6, 2014 1:56:18 GMT -6
Sometimes I kind of feel sorry for her- because it sometimes she just doesn't seem to get it- but I utterly hate how she can treat people sometimes and I have to wonder if it's because she just doesn't care to try to get it. I think I've seen one instance where folks over-reacted to her which weirded me out but overall she tends to be the instigator and it's just really frustrating when assumptions are made by her about people who disagree.
I actually do think Johnny and Randall can have reasons for the things that they do, heck you can even sympathies but... since when did that mean what they did was a-okay? Also just because something may not have been defined as bullying somewhere or at some time in the past doesn't mean they were right to call it 'not bullying'. That's not really how it works.
Heck just because something was defined as being something in the past does not mean the people in the past were well... right. Definitions which could have in fact have been written by people in powerful positions who did those bad things or didn't experience them for themselves.
If someone calls you out on bad behaviour as it is that doesn't automatically mean they're 'just being over-sensitive'.
I think with re: Waternoose and all. Yeah it's open to interpretation but there's nothing really concrete to suggest Randall was going to off Waternoose at that point of time. Waternoose wasn't some mere witness after all.
I think it's definitely something which could happen mind you- him turning on Waternoose in the future if the big crab pushes him way too far in some way but it's not on the cards at that point of time orprobably part of a long term plan if it did. In a very real way he needs Waternoose anyway- as a CEO he's probably going to try and get the law changed so they can use the scream extractor legally some day. That was probably the original plan since otherwise there'd have been little point to the plot. Waternoose provides funding, quite possibly a secure location and promises in the future the efforts will not be in vain thanks to his high end connections with judges or law makers. Randall and Fungus provide the labour as well as a buffer so Waternoose is above immediate suspicion (Roz didn't know after all).
|
|
|
Post by AnthroOphidian on Apr 6, 2014 2:42:18 GMT -6
Sometimes I kind of feel sorry for her- because it sometimes she just doesn't seem to get it- but I utterly hate how she can treat people sometimes and I have to wonder if it's because she just doesn't care to try to get it. I think I've seen one instance where folks over-reacted to her which weirded me out but overall she tends to be the instigator and it's just really frustrating when assumptions are made by her about people who disagree. I actually do think Johnny and Randall can have reasons for the things that they do, heck you can even sympathies but... since when did that mean what they did was a-okay? Also just because something may not have been defined as bullying somewhere or at some time in the past doesn't mean they were right to call it 'not bullying'. That's not really how it works. Heck just because something was defined as being something in the past does not mean the people in the past were well... right. Definitions which could have in fact have been written by people in powerful positions who did those bad things or didn't experience them for themselves. If someone calls you out on bad behaviour as it is that doesn't automatically mean they're 'just being over-sensitive'. This entirely. I'm particularly glad to hear I'm not the only one who's noticed her biggest opponents being part of the problem as well.
|
|
|
Post by conteremo on Apr 6, 2014 7:27:08 GMT -6
savefearow, I think I read what you posted about the ROR prank and it wasn't bad at all! I really agreed with what you had to say. Plus you remained civil throughout it all. I think with re: Waternoose and all. Yeah it's open to interpretation but there's nothing really concrete to suggest Randall was going to off Waternoose at that point of time. Waternoose wasn't some mere witness after all. I think it's definitely something which could happen mind you- him turning on Waternoose in the future if the big crab pushes him way too far in some way but it's not on the cards at that point of time orprobably part of a long term plan if it did. In a very real way he needs Waternoose anyway- as a CEO he's probably going to try and get the law changed so they can use the scream extractor legally some day. That was probably the original plan since otherwise there'd have been little point to the plot. Waternoose provides funding, quite possibly a secure location and promises in the future the efforts will not be in vain thanks to his high end connections with judges or law makers. Randall and Fungus provide the labour as well as a buffer so Waternoose is above immediate suspicion (Roz didn't know after all). Yeah, I'm inclined to believe this as well. It wouldn't be an intelligent thing to do to off or exile a man with a lot of power and high standing who is on your side, after all (loosely, anyway; he didn't like Randall and was apparently willing to turn him in along with Mike and Sulley, but they DID have the same goal). There was no way Randall would be able to get away with what he has done and thus to get a higher position with Sulley working under him without Waternoose still being around. I could also buy that Randall might have turned on Waternoose in the future, once all is said and done, but there's no telling why or how he would do it. PS: I actually really like Waternoose in case anyone was wondering. He's a great antagonist that won't let anyone get in the way of his goals, but at the same time he's not pure evil or anything imo.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2014 21:03:11 GMT -6
Yeah, it does seem like some Randall fans get carried away. I got badly flamed on DA one time just cause I stood up for Mike wanting to study and not going to the party with Randall. But then, my brother is a huge Randall fan, and he's not bullying others because of it. Probably the only thing Randall fans can do is reverse it and start giving Randall fans a good name. (Sorry if this is off-topic in any way.)
|
|
|
Post by valkiriforce on Apr 14, 2014 13:11:53 GMT -6
I've gotten some pretty random arguments on MU screens I've posted on my Tumblr that has hardly anything to do with the screens themselves. Thankfully that doesn't happen very often.
|
|
|
Post by AnthroOphidian on Apr 14, 2014 14:01:47 GMT -6
Again, it's not just some of the Randall fans being the problem, though: his haters don't help the matter either by ganging up on and bullying some of their opponents. But I will agree, valkiriforce: it's sickening that Tumblr users will find something to fight about over anything; hence, why I only reluctantly returned to that...place...earlier today.
|
|
|
Post by conteremo on Apr 16, 2014 8:11:04 GMT -6
There's only one (or two, if you count that one) Randall fans that I know of that go off the chain about him. Most of us are pretty chill, like me, "Evil or not evil, I don't care, I like him! Peace!"
|
|
|
Post by hopefulartist on Aug 24, 2014 23:21:59 GMT -6
The thing that bothered me the most about PBL is the negativity. Like this depressing headcanon of hers that he dropped out of MU. Just because he got kicked out of the RORs DOES NOT MEAN HE LEFT THE SCHOOL. I believe Randall is not the type who doesn't give up on his major like Mike. It never said what happened to Randall afterwards because he's a minor character and MU only focuses on Mike and Sulley. Just because he wasn't shown in Party Central doesn't mean he dropped out. He wouldn't be the type to quit because of a little thing like a clique. He wants to be the best scarer, better than Sullivan so he moved on from the RORs to focus on scaring and mastering his abilities.
I'm also sick of the demonization of Mike and Sulley too.
(I had to rant. I don't feel safe talking about what bothers me on tumblr because how aggressive and arrogant you-know-who can be. Always having to correct minor errors of canon and her headcanons..the way she put them makes me feel like she knows it's canon...but no, it's not.)
|
|